Book of Jeronimo de Caranza, native of Seville.
The treatise of the Philosophy of Arms and of the true Skill and of the aggression and defense of Christianity.

Translated by Cindy Koepp from the original
No copies of this document may be made without the express permission of William E. Wilson.

In Progress

Summary of the Contents in these four Dialogues of the True Skill.

The First Dialogue discusses the Invention of the Art and the Universal Propositions of those Effects and Definitions.

The Second Dialogue discusses the False Skill in General and in Particular, where they discover all the deceptions of the Vulgar, with other things similar to this Proposition.

The Third Dialogue gives the Demonstration of the Tricks in General, the Propositions of the First Dialogue, and indicates the Universals of the dagger against the sword with the Judgement of all the Arms.

The Fourth Dialogue discusses the Natural Defense and how the Skilled Man learns it, without doing Aggression, nor committing Treachery, nor sure Death; and the Obligation that he has absolved for his friends, and Enemies according to the Right, Natural, Divine, and Positive.

The First Dialogue, which speaks of the true Skill and of the Philosophy and consideration of the parts in General.

The occasion of this dialogue.

At this time, I had to renounce all points of victorious Arms of the invitation, and in peace I wish to pick up, to continue my studies, and to give of the skill to the praise of the vulgar. That thought is irreverent to me. I have left my Fatherland for good and come to the service of the Most Excellent Don Alonso Perez de Guzman, to whom I went infrequently to get away from of the hated Arrogance of some who, with bad spirit, will envy and adulterate my things. So to serve him follows, for that skill rewards the fruit of my humble talent, since from his excellent experiment comes the many demonstrations of the Skill. Consider the reason that all have to envy them and to give credit to the eyes and so to the hearing. Principally those who wish to feign disbelief see the experience control and persuade them in the practice of the arms not discussed. Thus for the vile deed in which they have put the vulgar appears a thing so unworthy of the profession that I make in other things no less qualifications. Taking for the defense and the obedience of this command and finding me weary of the envy and incredulity of the lying vulgar, it appears correct to me to leave the practice of the Skill for always and withdraw to discuss something of the Speculation of it.

The excellence of the place of San Lucar

It is suitable for the delight of he mind to live in the season where your Excellency lives. That seems appropriate to the dignity and disposition of your Sky, air, and place for all parts considered. That same nature foretells that this Prince has distinguished himself in virtues among those of our age. And raise this place as the best of the world to in which to live. And because it can, the soul delights in the best and enjoys the view of the fertility of Spain and the richness of the West with the entering and leaving of the Navy. It permitted that in quality and nobility it exceeds all the places in our region. And although the beginning of your town is humble, it is already of such grand Elevation for the competition of the nations and nobility of the buildings and presence of its owner. Who can say with truth that the old man will never enjoy what we possess?

Painting of the fishing.

And what greater ornament than the gift of the Sea for a neighbor. A dock that serves for a narrow pass between both worlds expressly orders that which comes most amazing to the men, with its altered depths in half of the greater courage than he himself secured and in humility, the banner of his pride. And his own sons pay each year in perpetuity first fruits in recognition of its tremendous value in memory of the majesty of his principle. I was already established in your service and had friendship with the gentlemen of your house especially with some who, because their rare skill and nobility, deserve to serve this man. This man also knows to recognize the merit of each respecting him to offer that day to remove the Melancholy of the place, which has unhappy memory of past things from all point, usurped it almost to the hour of Dawn. He discovers in the beach of the spacious Sea where the grand and navigable river Guadalquivir crowned with its olives beautifully arrives with the ordinary course of its Waves to make the journey to this place and put out to the Ocean its tribute.

Picture of outside San Lucar

The world outside was filled with wonderful flowers and many grasses and herbs interwoven and linked to one another. It seems likely that a very cold of net covers that spray and moves it to a mild and smooth tide. The leaves of some trees were disturbed with a gentle sound, and with the coolness and serenity of time the Waves of the Sea restrain his fury slowly raising it to all, giving great happiness. And greater still is the happiness when raising the eyes to the beauty of those tall Pines.

The thicket defends the entrance of the rigorous ray of the Sun. Wearying of this defense gave the Meadows and Gardens, which they make you relax in this place with very gentle and mild entertainment. Discovered at nearly to the end of the view, for the contrary part, the high Mountains of perpetual summit with the skirts and slopes full of Trees. The songs of the Birds sound in all the nearby places with marvelous smoothness and harmony. It occupies us with the deep feelings of all with the view of this marvelous picture and blends with the Study and Style of the natural.

The profession of the speakers

They put in the light this consideration to meet in the famous place. Some wise men, for the greatness of their talents, were among all the enlightened. They who are now of the knowledge of the sciences and ownership of pasture speak now the great particulars of this learned house and heavy, serious matter.

And among them the more continuous were Eudemio, who being noble and good, teaches in the humane letters with serious reason and elegant words and with a pleasant manner was to all his friends very gentle.

Next are Polemarcho and Philandro, the first of these which, with a smooth and mild condition and diligence of talent, was very learned in the canonical and civil law.

More Philandro has given great care to the study of the Philosophy and Medicine. Recovering of the continuing deep melancholy, he is more difficult and more unpleasant in manner although the strength of his talent compensates when it disputes his condition of strength. He appears no rougher than he wants and desires.

Also there were Charilao and Meliso, diverse in Studies, so that one is well suited to know Charilao, having practice in the Skill. Among those who use the Skill, he has reached some name. The other is Meliso, excellent in all the disciplines. He is most learned in the Mathematics and made distinguished with the grand erudition and varied letters. He has the goodness natural to Mathematics accompanied by a rare talent. He is well accepted by all.

Effects of the imagination

Finding it since this time, accept Philandro assembles in the place related, being already midday when the Sun with the strength of the summer shines rigorously in the world. Eudemio comes to Charilao waiting and almost seized in consideration, abandoning that silence thus he says.

Well, they say, Charilao, that the imagination is very strong. With great violence it occupies all the powers of the men, usurping the Elegance and removing from all point the use and ministry of it. Since having such manner, we let loose of the grandeur and majesty of this house. Victory will only reach the gentlemen among you all, since you are as Mount Olympus that does not feel the clouds and has waited quietly and without sound.

Charilao answers, as if he will remember from some dream. It should not astonish you that I might not have heard because it occupied all my very unhappy memories of things past which I carry with me so strongly that it makes me forget all the present.

To this then Polemarcho says in this manner: Very different is our imagination than what you think Eudemio. Since you are coming so hastily and concerned, I have for my understanding that imagination occupies more in Arms and skill than in other some things.

Charilao offends concerning the Skill.

And so Eudemio agrees with what Polemarco says. Charilao almost offends from his answer. You poorly use what you owe to good friendship. Since that answer wants what employs the kind of thinking in it that I less accept and more detest. Isn't it already known that between the men of honor it is of no use to think so low? This answer he gave is not well liked by Eudemio. Being very interested in the Skill and knowing something of this, and unable to suffer this injury, he relies on all his influence, because each one wishes to respond to it.

The skill is generous

Thus Eudemio says, if you participate, Charilao, I will defend the part of the Skill since it is so generous and full of virtue. Although I know that I have more to overcome than our friendship than to the reason you have for this. If I were to be idle to be able to think or know to think in friendship that I have been the first that may have been broken and weakened by such bad use and opinion.

Effects of the false skill
Painting a portrait describing vile men

No, I want to put myself in this difference of opinion with you, responds Charilao, since I have in friendship no one who is more discreet than you. It is not well that he employed the thought in part wherever he could speak and consider the ignorance of the vulgar with the same liberty. Greatness is of such little good use for the conservation of the honor and so confuses the understanding. It is frightening to the skilled and grants him undeserved fame. It teaches men to lie and obliges men to get more of it if they can. It can put honor in great danger. It can offend those who have no blame. It can cause envy and harm in absence of the honor of the virtuous. Competitors can feign greatness that never becomes them. It is only to please the vulgar and be their equal, and men of honor will hold you in very bad opinion. What you do not understand is that I put the Arms at fault. Rather Arms have put me in greatness. Of this I make complaint that with their evils and inventions they have brought to being wh
at they have now.

Declamation of the bad Arms
For the vile from the author of sacred the Art

To this, in turn, Polemarcho said, the Skill is damaged by men of low quality and humble understanding who use it according to their talent, not to the merit of the Skill. You know already that the art cannot be blamed for the ignorance of the Craftsman. It is evident, as the Divine Plato affirms, that in all the sciences there are many insignificant men of low quality and poor estimation. Especially in the Art we discuss, there are professors of it who are the dregs of the republic. So know well that to be the Skilled Man is not to be it in name.

The humility and baseness of those who call themselves swordsmen
The deceit of the Skill
That thing is to know
It that is properly vulgar skill
The common Skill lacks in the truth

Well I see, responds Charilao, that you all appear to be against my opinion. It will be very difficult to start with it in the beginning. It is more difficult because you learn the strength that my reasons have. I say that harm does not proceed from the skill if it comes accidentally. This is similar to Poetry, which has so many bad Poets of grand contempt. Although this is lacking it, it is not so little that you can raise it to its first glory in many Years. They remove the good understanding, cleaning the filthiness that it has as Hercules made the Corral of King Augias. If you want that whole point, it discovers the deceit of the Skill. It will look so little as it is based in reason. Without it, who can have a rational thing? The greater strength of it is the ignorance of the opponent. So all your basis is in chance. Finally, there are those who discuss it more and in addition the valiant boast. There are those that know less and that are cowardly, since having spent the bigger part of their
life in it. They do not know to give reason to what they learn. Nor had he taught that. You know a thing perfectly when you know the cause of it. Nature teaches us many things without Art, though. You move discovering the experience with the speech of the time. And by that it isn't known to follow the opinion of the people and to give testimony to the pandemonium of the common without testing the skill or considering the reasons of the effects. And if this is so and there is no man so ignorant that he cannot see it clearly, he knows the faults that you call our good Skill covered with the name of virtue that never was deserved. So there is no one who knows something of it. It could have been a thing that could be known with work. The one who doubts has such good skills in the World. Are they more inclined to Arms that have no knowledge of some of this? There is only a very confusing experience and doubting the Writer so consideration and judgement reveal the Science. They that discuss it and now praise it know how uncertain it is because the skill changes with the difference of the Bodies and variety of the builds. And if you deny it, look when they fight and you will see that those who profess they know more forget the skill. If they had known it and it was true, they would not be able to forget. Still, you will not find this only in the skilled. More they will grant each one for himself. No one is later than they are. Meanwhile there is only one skill and not all are speaking ill of himself and of those who do not deserve it.

The condition of the vulgar
The ignorant master says what I provide is bad
The customs that divide friendships

To this responds Meliso, The skill is not to blame in this, but rather the skilled men, because they give honor to the vulgar as they see fit to the measure that they think. Increase honor in those convicted of the same exercise because it appears to agree with your presumption to condemn others because they do not have the opinion or because of the kindness and knowledge of others that they will not please in the future. If they have at some time said ill of you, do not regret it. Although for some great span of time they raise envies and slanders against virtue, our long experience teaches you that these evils are unable to last. Before long they perish with their Authors who think less and are more gullible. They consider you for your part more than they do for theirs. Isn't it agreeable to be able to hope in such different inclinations? So the envious, the ignorant, and the man of life can have their vices and love the contrary study and their opinion that. So the virtuous can have friendship and deal with having to be (so says Plato) between equals and near equals rather than with those that are of such contrary applications and tastes.

The happiness of the vulgar
Customs received between the ignorant
Thinks the ignorant that is offense you that there is other more learned that the
Portrait to the natural of the coward

And wanting to continue with Meliso's reasons to undo the opinion of Charilao for the part of the Skill: Eudemio interrupts this thusly, Is it true that the skilled men discuss the science of this kind?

Charilao surrendering it says, since you will not want to finish the beginning to remain unconfused, easily you will be satisfied by your question and with so much truth that you will regret to be its defender. And I think to say more than you ask, because as I discuss it, I will unfold this before your eyes although all these conditions are unwanted. Having all this in our hands, we will leave and continue with the Skill. Moreover, if I can find occasion, we will return to it. Know that these skills have all our happiness and glory, each one for his part; not in true praise of virtue and certain art, but in the a shadow of honor that offers to obscure the body of the vulgar and this is in condemnation of those who know, like those who do not know and praise it on his own and support these conceits and to enlarge them because the wind does not undo them easily. They use worse ends increasing the error by another 600 with a greater mistake and the bestiality of the world by representing it to one that has no other greater skill than he has. He marries it with this false figure. Listen to what I say. He is hasty who thoughtlessly stands his ground although this is more distant from the one Pole to the other. With the other skilled man he kills himself without more basis of reason. He wastes on this so little that he goes in anger looking afterward for the future (such happens) when it is more necessary for honor. He who dares to have none in the world like him appears to be violent. It is great humility to suffer it, or it is great offense to pass lightly for it. In this they discuss our brave and valiant, our quarrelsome rough and disliked when none agree. These who are vile do not stop vomiting disgrace, attempting if they can with the poisonous knife of their tongues to cast a slur on the estimation of those that with fair title possess a good name in virtue. These finally you call our skilled men and the vulgar ignorant of their professions. Such good friend is the opinion, apparent by essential reason, that they call them valiant. But, I agree with Homer. I call it a useless burden of the world.

For certain, that comes to this hair says Eudemio. It is my wish to learn Arms well. And for the presumption I have raised, you say more for our life. If it is true that the skilled do not know anything and are such silliness and without agreement such as we know, what do the people see in these men that bring such deceit? Or is that it they leave these to deceive and to ridicule those they esteem later in secret. I want to learn clearly and without doubt who are the deceivers: these praised for being such cowards and lying in how many they speak of, or the people in believing them and praising them?

And so Charilao says, the people that praise loss.

The false estimation owes not to consent

Eudemio answers back: Since that damaged them, it comes to them that they praise. Do those being praised have no part in their name being published? It appears to me that if the men included in this boast, they fall into great danger, because with the false estimation what man of honor does not have to admit it. They are obliged to things that his spirit does not reach nor his strength comprehend and thus for this cause start exploits in which they lose their life. And in addition to late honor (if some time they were cowards), because trying to be the Ass of Cumas, he puts on the skin of the Lion to frighten them. There is one who knows and doesn't fear it. They remove the skin to discover his cowardice and insolence because as you know the vain honor, although no seed, sometimes blooms.

Each one owes it to himself to be satisfied of the worthiness of the ones they praise
The student loses the belief of the Master if he sees that mistake in his teacher
Definition of the offense
Occupation of the envious

It is True, answers Charilao, but you do not see that it is very bad and damages many more than if alone. The particular man that is unjustly praised did not make him obliged in this. As for those who have suffered, it is only those who deceive. More are united and each one is for it. He came, given as bad an account as this, spending time with those they praise and in whom they hope. He promised great things of his valor and was to remain for these things in fear of such grand Spirit of men. They are not the only ones who understand that it is false that they have the learning of Skilled Men. Moreover, the Spirit is intimidated by lack of use. Reminded of such evil, a bad man that thus wanted to deceive them and offend them because it is investigated and then for certain the Skill is suspicious when the Master was cowardly. And so they said that to first pretend to be brave Skilled Men and to deceive them. But you cannot understand that they remain offending. You know that (as says Aristotle) the men that make offense to others in these things are ashamed to say and to remember it. So if one acts with bad will and had it, the other wants to give the honor that he owes to another to one without worth. And the rest, because it was said, praises them. The praise does not agree with who is esteemed. Neither knows that the basis of this is false and the day comes, as has come already, when he removes from cowardice the mask of bravery. It appears to you that the little offense made them lie. And so you spent the time giving them unworthy praise and removing it from those who deserve it as a true title.

The skill is in the will of him that wants to say that he knows it

Eudemio is satisfied with this answer and does not contradict it. He asks that he will declare who has made in the world so many brave and Skilled Men, since the skill is so excellent and the brave deed rare in the men. Who?

Each one is a friend of his similar.
Customs already investigated in the vulgar
The ignorant envious: never believe they don't see

Says Charilao, The envious, the hated, the fearful, the ignorant, the defective. Because the coward and the ignorant could not make a great thing, they come to have a little of it and to speak ill of it. The discreet have to reverse it. That all appears difficult and does not do it. He praises and esteems it greatly. So you know that Plato has dealt with the verses of Antimacho. He that learns of it appeared good. I say that he that does not learn should be better. Moreover, the envious ignorant cannot do to be such a coward. Nor can his judgement discern if it is good or bad because he is so awkward. He says that it makes it much easier. Because he does not obtain these, the honor goes to those who deserve it. If he has bad will already, than he cannot attribute it. He gives it to others such as himself. For that he loses the admiration. He knew all that is easy and common to many. And so by the same case, a thing may be true. He who contradicts it had to have reversed the lie. And so they both bring a suit having much that they give credit for to increase the number of ignorants. And it is not astonishing that a custom perpetuates and is already greatly received by the ignorant. He measures the knowledge and valor of things with the narrow limits of his small judgement and oath. Neither considering it nor weighing it so they are of his nature. Nor do they carry the skill. Rather they feign, without some fundamental reason, the imagination that first appears to them. They think that to them it represents the Skill that they profess only in name. They do not believe these things that others do, because they have no vision. Nor did they do it. They used avarice with the credit of the truth. They were extravagant with falsehood and lies.

Effects of the malice

That this was so, responds Eudemio. Some will have you believe that they were men of credit, that they do what they say and much more. Already you know that the men of honor fear to say. It is with difficulty that they have to do. To me they do not appear to be such inconsiderate men that they do not give honor to some with reason. As in any art there is many grades besides the best and the most supreme. They all deserve to be praised, each one in his place, principally selling and hiring for skilled men. Understanding the arms, they publish.

More come to know the old Skilled Men

Then says Charilao, so you ask us to understand the Arms and to be skilled men.

I call Skilled Men, responds Eudemio, those who know how to do tricks. And to understand the arms as they say. They know to apply a cut with a reverse, a thrust with a two handed blow, a warning with a deceit in all the species of the arms.

What significance is this name "skilled men"?
Conclusion of the skill

Charilao smiles a little at these answers and says, you know that skilled man is general name. All those things are good practices. The action is as the word. It's one thing to understand the Arms and another thing to be a skilled man. A skilled man is he who is practiced in the practical aspects of the Arms or in things of the practical nature. To understand Arms is to know the Theory of these practical aspects. He always has to be exact in the execution of the wounds in the opponent

In that you see, replies Eudemio. What about those who say they know the practical and not the Theory. The practical is all that they know.

You know, says Charilao, that they call this a cut, and this a wound because they heard it said.  And also, a reverse because this is in use.   And this a two handed cut, and this a thrust. This is the Theory of the vulgar skills, if you please.  The practical is that, if they want, the cut and reverse and thrust and two handed attack are done and executed on the opponent.  Indeed they resort to objections.  Given the opportunity for that, they can make the wounds and diversions.  If they do not give the opportunity, they remain without having done the same thing.  And so they made certain to do that which they learn with some and not with others because some help with his intent.  Others they understand because they go on to the future.  They base all their Skill in the occasion given by the opponent.  Here they make good use of the Skill that they know to scold (if you can call skill what men do not make good use of nor can make good use of) and the argument is often deceiving that it is not science.  He knows little of the truth because the thing is not Science but a scientific Practice that he knows.

Then Meliso desires to pick up this fight which is so agreeable to the skilled that he makes good use of it.  Occupying the place of Eudemio that very ember said,  You would have us first understand that they do not make good use of the tricks.  Knowing this, what do you say of the practical?  Declare for us then something of the consideration of it.

The vulgar skill is a disrespectful thing to scold
Vanquish the practice of this skill

Charilao objects after a little time as if he wants to rest and later says,  Although it is a difficult thing to discuss, these two parts of the Skill here without contradicting, I will attempt with my weak skill to not disillusion your wish to bravely defend {16}the opinion, because, you see Eudemio, as far as this is true and you understand some part of the Skill.  The skill is not as it appears.  I will be different in this from the good Painters that paint the things as they appear.  I will give you this first to understand and then will test it.  It is no benefit to scold the Skill.  It is bad to scold the skill because the man who is practiced in arms is more skillful and can overcome the one who has no skill and no practice in this.  This is because he does not discuss when to be the skilled man in thrusts, steps, repairs, diversions and in the knowledge of them.  However many executions of the wounds on the opponent, he knows the Skill and have the name of it.  Others apply this Skill, you will see, in a time and place convenient without that intervening occasion.

You have to know it to be skilled.

It appears to me, says Eudemio, that knowing the tricks well, they do them although they anger the skilled men.

Against the skill
The tricks deceive those who do not serve the truth

No, you will concede, responds Charilao, that the spirits of men have their passions and this changes it.  It is different when this causes anger when peaceful and quiet.  If it is the spirit that is principal in the man, it is the fundamental basis of all the Exercise of the Arms.  Also it will be the strength and boldness.  Breathing is different when it has to procure and conserve for the rest of the parts and instruments of the Body so they can use their occupations.  Later, others have wounds.  Accordingly they scold those who fence.  For this reason they will not do it nor does the Skill avail any by offending those who trust in it.

According to this different reason they have to belong, says Eudemio.  They have more to do with it.  In essence, it is the same cut as fencing, and the same thrust and reverse and they move for the same reason and it is the same man that they govern.

Against the skill vulgar
Of the particulars no there is science
The appearance of the face deceives
Against the skill
The danger hinders the choice
The things that make the skill false
The job of fear
Against the skill

Truly, says Charilao, neither the cut nor the other kinds of wounds are generally different then.  They can have more or less parts in their movement.  They come here to start it more quickly or more slowly than it requires for the proportion you say now.  So there is no art that considers the particulars because they are infinite and unknowable. The movements by which they achieve the wound in the Skill are cut, reverse, thrust or attacking conversion.  And for each one of these movements there are defenses formed that the common opinion calls contraries. You will concede later that for each one in particular they have their wounds and that in each one of these the body moves in a different manner according to the goals.  They distinguish in each the postures, not having such a beginning as the contrary.  It is not for us to know what Specie of wound is formed against us.  Because of that it is not even.  It cannot be a science.  To follow it by the conjectures of the face deceives more times.  For that manner you do not know what trick or kind of movement you have to apply for the protection and offensive position to the wound the opponent.  It does not have a starting point or comparison that applies.  Thus finally, there are times we do not know the posture of the contrary nor with what kind of wound we have to use to offend and between which has to be the movement you have to apply against what the other does.  He always comes to lose the juncture of the wounds because the danger removes the choice.  Because of this fear, there is no real skill.  So I profess that with all its life.  The sudden intention {17} suffer no delay.  In that place of strength does not carry the science it has to have.  To cause delay and danger, and the danger, fear.  Fear removes the strength and restrains and subjects Spirit and confounds the memory.  Lacking as these parts our Skilled Men will use well the Spirit and Skill, because the place of the skill is the memory.  The one who has the key to the strong reminiscence is the guard.  So this spoiled gentleman prevails and orders it all and what is missing is the skill.  It is very clear since we have seen it many times that in the necessity for what was invented the more skilled man forgets this.  Half of the danger is in abandoning them.  Even in Fencing, in easy time the effects was made true.  The good Pilot, having to be the skilled men, in the turmoil and danger proves his value and knowledge.  Especially in the Art we discuss, difficulty shows virtue.

In difficulties, the Art is polished

Eudemio responds.  Giving us, in the experience of each day, such manifest examples, it is good we see what the skill is missing.  I cannot forget to say that this science is very fortunate to the man for the conservation of political life, and to augment honor, to be esteemed, and to want the good, and to fear and abhor the bad.

Defense for part of the Skill

If it is science, says Charilao, how can it be lacking?  And if it is lacking, can it be science?  Do Skilled Men ignore what they do for good or ill to guarantee it?

Against the skill

To this responds Eudemio, that lack is not the fault of the Skill but the skilled men.  These rest in the confidence that they have in it.  Seizing their thoughts, it presents them to the dangers of the spirit and the skill neither they have place nor can have place.  And it is such that knowing the faults of the skilled men is no reason to attribute fault to the science that is the cause of such noble effects in the men.  Largely in that they truly enjoy this name.

Strong defense for the part of the skill
Against the skill
The occupation of the vulgar

Good you say, says Charilao, more that you concede to us that lacking the skill which they all know.  With conscience, each skilled man is 1000 witnesses.  I want to test it contrary to our opinion.  The science is true because it proceeds of things really not lacking the truth.  Then the science does not have to be lacking.  If the skill is lacking, it infers well that the skill is neither science nor truth because if it was, it will lack nothing.  This is clearly not true so it has to be lies.  This is an extreme point.  That if, with attention, you look at them who are the more skilled and valient men who trust in the skill, then they discuss and base their pretensions in lying things.  With great difficulty they say some truth, because his study is to tyrannize the credit with falseness.

Definitions of the vulgar skill

Eudemio says nothing to this reason. Thus it is more confusing than satisfying when Meliso replies, You do not think, Charilao, to undo so easily the opinion of Eudemio.  First you have to say to us the definition of the Skill to confirm it.

Definition of the Skill true

Very well, says Charilao, that you begin asking things like that when you have reached to work to distribute the shame that it will give between both of us.  The skill of the Arms is not another thing, but a vanity that they have given the ignorant men.  It is the loaded leaves without any hope of fruit of the wonderful Tree.  It falls in the world so that any who arrive makes firewood of it.  So the ignorants have done to the poor skill until now.

I do not ask for the definition of the vulgar skill, responds Meliso, but the essentials of the true skill.

[18]  The skill, says Charilao, is a knowledge and habit that teaches us how to injure and to defend against the contrary.

The things that teach the true skill
It appears, replies Meliso, that you will not be able to show that it is Science.  Teach the qualities of the effects of the movements about the skill.  Understand your principles and know the part where they have to follow the true road to make certain injuries by means of the posture the contrary will take.

For this same reason, Charilao said, I want to prove that it is not science.

This will, said Meliso, fly with the wings of Icarus to fall in the ocean.

Note against the skill
The vulgar skill in the will of the contrary
The things that impede the action of the skill

If it were, said Charilao, the reason that I will give it will not judge the true intention.  You say that the Skill teaches how to give injury by means of the posture that the contrary will take.  Now, since you have attention, this injury has to be executed according to the posture the contrary has.  The posture of the contrary can be how I want or how he wants.  It is impossible for me to force the posture I want, but it is a case.  He is contrary to your will and directs his posture.  So understand that he takes the posture he wants.  By that he has no effect on my trick by means of the posture that I see.  The man changes it when I have it more steady and firm.  It will not benefit me to be carried to think against it and it will agree to offer new tricks to the understanding.  The contrary retains a large space to offend me by it except that with the same proportion I will take for my attack.  He will make my space to his will.  And if by missing me his posture becomes what I want, I will do my attack.  He does not follow it because of this.  All the Skill is the will of the contrary and the choice of his posture by his foreign will.  So it is unable to be Science.  Nor is it possible to suggest thinking to scold or to play the contrary man with his own operations.  Since in no manner can I know how to put the contrary.  Nor afterwards is there some such clever way to put him. I could not understand nor predict where he has to take his posture so that I had knowledge of it, but there is no asking him about his choice.  It would be ignorant to ask him about his posture and the rest of his tricks and then attack.  The skilled man  is not able to carry with truth or certainty some proposition thinking rather than knowing what is without science in the point he has to serve.

Concerning the skill, responds Meliso, more tricks give understanding and prompt the memory to satisfactorily apply to the occasion that the contrary will give.

Against the vulgar Skill
Effects of fear
The causes because the vulgar skill does not serve the truth
Being thus, says Charilao, he will have between the understanding and reason great doubt upon which will be the great trick.  Thus he will choose inconsiderately each one and will lose his ability to effect the will.  And not having some definite points that in each moment can serve, he has cause to fear the danger.  They who open the door to the Skill are unable to behave finally because fear alters the judgement and he loses the memory.  So, they confuse the tricks because the Master is unfaithful in all things and the skill has its place in the memory.  At this point, he loses the skill's operation.  Fear is the principle cause because when they have need of the skill they learned, it is not there.  Using then the common and natural basics taught to all, they make the skills when they are angry.  Because of these things, we do not have science before we reach them. They reach that before we are frightened.

Defense of the part of the skill
[19]  It seems to me, replies Meliso, that the choice then has of to be in a point and not a sign of the skilled man's trick until both are in their posture.  There he conforms to what happens and applies with promptness.

Against the Skill vulgar
Of the things that happen not all have to be science
Declaration of the proverb
Note against the skill
You do not persuade us, says Charilao, that the skill is not science and that it cannot have certainty.  You want it to conform to what has happened, to apply it in a more narrow range of posture so that if you are thinking of a trick to make against a cut, the true contrary throws a thrust.  Or when he has to make a movement, it quietly deceives true intention.  Does it appear to us that you will remain good with a true trick making what was in danger of no effect?  You know well what things are possible and that they result in a thing that cannot have science with a good outcome if sometimes they have happiness that should happen always to the skilled man.  It is so with them who are with them and with those who are not. So is born the common proverb: the edge of the sword passes where it wants.  To take comfort and to cheer up understanding, they scold those who are not skilled men along with those who have a name in the skill.  And where this is uncertain, truth will answer for all.  Such works of art already know that they are with the effects of nature so that they have no need of the happiness.  Because without it, he will lie and deceive and form science and truth how he wants.  We have not seen that I teach our Master a trick and we make it both at once and he happens to be right and I happen to be wrong.  Is the Master false or the exchange?  This cannot go without a fault of the true knowledge of the cause because each trick has no understanding of your posture.  Nor is there a fault in where to apply the trick, because it was equally true in both.  Now you will want to know simply if I will call this an error on the part of the skill or on the part of the skilled men.

The error of the skilled man.
Then says Meliso, it is the error on the part of the skilled man that has not applied the tricks as one asks.  For, if he does not begin at the certain point required, he comes up wrong more often.

Against the skill
On the contrary, responds Charilao, we have his informed experiences.  We will find the tricks infallible if in truth he never misses.  We see each moment that the man begins a trick on the part that the same skilled man was taught.  For this same trick, he misses it sometimes but gets it right other times.

Defense of the skill
The things that compose the wound
To this Meliso responds.  Then we have not been teaching the skilled man the truth because it cannot be that neither happens.  If sometimes he gets it right, there is truth in it.  But the true skilled men have not seen nor known that all is done or exists for art or for nature or for an event.  Who cannot have truth?

How do you know, says Charilao, that this truth is in the skill and not in the skilled man?

The cause is the mistake of the skilled man
In this, all strength is in the skill
Then Meliso responds, the cause is the wound it makes and the movements it forms without which it cannot give the contrary.  Know that the first movement and great principle of all is the movement of place.  From where may it come that the skilled man makes the error without knowing the cause.  He begins with the weakness of his sword in the strength of the contrary, or he exchanges this first with not knowing who is nearby or remote in the profile or he does not know the distance that there is between part of the sword and the Body of the contrary or he ignores the nature of the movements.  They are all the strength of the Skill.  If these things do not reach his understanding, the Skilled Man is in error for all the tricks.  Finally, with no warning he is required to do it with certainty.  Because of this, the Skill has no fault.  The purity of the truth remains in spite of the false artist.

Against the Skill
[20] Defeated a little in this, Charilao responds.  It is good that you say this.  We see each day that the same trick in two equal men without one giving the other his end.  The first does not increase it nor diminish the parts of the movement they make.  He faults them, certain the one and not the other does not know the cause.  So there is no error in what he does since it is all one, but he is wrong to do it.  He was wrong, so it will not be certain when a man hears of his tricks tomorrow without knowing anyone to give some reason to be certain or to be wrong.  He does things often that with art he cannot do.

How it will invent the Sciences
All this does well for me because there is an error manifest in what you say about the skilled man, says Meliso.  It is an error to not speculate with attention about the particular experience that brings the universal knowledge of the things.  At the right time, the skilled man knowingly does with experience what he found in the truth.  Science will hold outside of all opinion.  He hears correctly and another day does not owe to be in the great or poor disposition that has the man a day more than another.  The Doctor does not lose authority because he does not cure the infirm.  Nor does Rhetoric always persuade the Orator.  So also the Skill does not lose because the Skilled Man is wrong sometimes and right so often.

Definition of Medicine
The things that have to be considered for the Doctor to be right
He agrees with us on the occasion
The occasion he has will differ
Note against the Skill
Against the Skill
This is good, responds Charilao.  You say this time that only the Skilled Men are wrong.  Such we never know what Men will learn in peace or in war.  You say to me that the essence and effect of the truth is the work of the disposition of the man.  It is true that a thing that is white in my hand will also be white in yours.  It cannot have any disposition that contradicts it.  2 times 2 is four and, unless you add to it, it will never be able to be 7.  Consider what you say about Medicine.  We know that it is an art that will invent reason and experience to conserve the sanity and to heal the infirmity.  The Doctor pays attention to the Region of the body and to the type of the year and the age and the custom and the infirmity.  The Doctor is suited to the Medical Practice and knows the virtue and the state of the Sky, and what the temperance or quality was yesterday that we participated in.  He may know what the type of the year and the Region of the body corresponds to in this temperance or quality of the state of the Sky he understands.  After this he considers the nature of the Sign of the Sun in great infirmities or the Moon in the lesser infirmities and considers the aspects of the Planets which give attention to the prosperous or adverse days the infirm was born under.  On the principle of the infirmity, he looks at the color and by means of known causes the qualities of the excrement tell what humor prevails.  If he luckily conforms to applying things that are more appropriate to the certain art.  The adverse event is not the fault of the Doctor having perfected on his part all diligence to applying the medicines conforming to the occasion according to what Hippocrates said.  It is so quick that all the esteemed Physicians know to make the choice of the dispositions in the great occasions.  Since his patient is to pass quickly, he is required to give grand attention and vigilance to capture it and seize it by the face.  After the patient turns, there is nowhere to seize it, nor is it so small that the patient can be treated.  Also lacking in another part of the principle is the time of the occasion.  In the occasion there is little time.  It is the nature of the undertaking that he cannot [21] be punctual.  He may recover so many times in time.  Others happen in occasion after the manner of the time in this occasion.  The occasion is not late so much as delayed, because of the causes give the most variance when they are ignored it.  In infirmities, they have various successes.  They reduce this all and say to the occasion, which after losing a time has great, difficult doubt in all the things of the skill.  Where there is so much science, it proves with the experience of so many years.  The difficult Authors find so many difficulties when it has no definite certainty of something that agrees with the Physician.  The skill does not have some certainty.  It ignores the truth.  Of all its parts, will this be his difficulty?  If the Orator does not always persuade, it is very different than what we discuss.  Is it enough to speak well with embellishments?  Demosthenes says that the fortress of his eloquence depends on the happiness of the listeners.  This is more true in the skill.  If a trick is true in the Master, it will not be in the Disciple.

The science is in the things
How it finds the truth
In that they are deceived by all the things
Then Polemarcho, who gives very little attention, has heard this without speaking.  He says, if the science is in the things, and if in them he finds truth, who will continue trying?  He knows more things and without doubt some will also know and some will know more truth.  The truth of the skill is in its movements, in its postures of body, arm and sword, whether weak or strong.  The truth is in the proper giving of injuries and in applying the kinds.  So if the skilled men do not find truth, they are deceived and not the skill.  You say that the disposition is acquired by actions.  Until you make it a habit in this by means of the cause that you call truth, the understanding cannot be deceived.  To be the truth with equality of the thing, he has to understand it to the same level of understanding.  This may agree with the reason of the truth that is derived from the understanding of it.  He has to understand it, in understanding the essence of the proposition and informing the understanding which is always true, are they deceived by falsehoods of the skill and the rest of the things?

The knowledge proceeds to what I want and Love
The human understanding is a mirror of the real things
He finds good and bad in the things
It is the deceits, says Meliso, that I collect of the false things that give the meaning to the understanding and come to deceive it.  How can you love a good kind of thing that is really bad?  It is because our knowledge precedes the Love.  Nothing will be able to love if first it does know it is a good kind of thing.  Nor is it so small a decline in the knowledge of the man who first does not find it to be right.  Human understanding is a Mirror or image of the real things.  I strongly believe that nothing can be loved that first has to really be and appear to be good.  There is nothing just that you want to persuade us so many ways.  You know the truth of the skill that cannot be deceived in it.  You do not understand that my intent is more to sustain opinion than to say the truth.  Know that after understanding the manner of a thing, it has the divine understanding which depends on the human understanding on which it must not depend.  For this reason, to affirm or to deny the truth changes nothing in the truth.  The truth touches the skill.  Nor does it say little of the truth or falsity in the things.  They leave to comprehend the understanding of the thing.  For our liking, you contradict it [22] and do not say I ignore the cause.  He says the true or false understanding, and as such whether the things are good or are bad and whether true and false.

It is true and false in this understanding
And how Eudemio admires to hear it.  He asked that they declare with easier ends how the past understanding is true.  If it was always true, how could it be false?

The truth is primarily in God
Definition of the truth
To this, Meliso responds taking to Charilao the hand that he will want to respond to.  You know that the thing understands compared to the divine understanding given and, because it follows the likeness of the idea or the space, that this eternal Thought proceeds to speak the truth.  Here we say durable truth has the truth of natural stone.  In this respect, he finds the truth primarily in God.  He attributes it to the Divine understanding that equals and measures things this way in the definite nature of the same.  Nothing is true but the propriety of nature that establishes the things.  If you want to consider the second, he outlines that they have part of the Creator, constituting in his nature with the speculative understanding.  You find against the opinion of Charilao that the truth is first in the things understood by the Skilled Man and not because he published an ignorant, deceiving thing that is false.  It is for this same reason you do not have truth if you appear to follow the fallen.

Falsehood is proper to the imagination
To this Charilao responds, the great feeling that you have of me appears more friendly to me and to vulgar opinion of what is true in what I discuss.  As you know (so says the Philosopher) by chance he knows the major part of the essential things and they are not so successive that the skill contradicts them that they may not be more permanent.  This is especially so since I have my part, the experience of my actions to understand the skill.  Because of this likeness, my understanding is truth.  Falsehood is more proper to the imagination you have, and if you consider without passion, it will conform to true understanding leaving me to measure the reason that I have in the science.  This is a firm knowledge acquired with large discourse of days that never retire the reason.

Definition of science
The things naturally measure our understanding
Each one can be a light in what it knows
The thing is true
How it deceives the understanding
The truth appears distant, replies Meliso.  He will be poorly able to mend my understanding with true opinion.  With your words you give us a good understanding of the hatred that you have for the skill, more intending.  The science has small fault in this but, if you wish for our courtesy, that will deceive.  I suggest that it appears contrary to me than what you say.  I understand it because you carry the advantage of many curses in the practice of the skill where I persuade in faith of the friendship we have.  With your true opinion you affirm against the skill.  I do not leave off understanding myself that what you are conceiving is false.  It is true that we take natural things as science.  They measure our understanding.  In like manner they measure the Divine understanding according to the pertinent dispute you give us to know it.  If understanding of the others are measuring with the truth of things, the truth is wandering and singular that measures them.  I certainly cannot understand that discourtesy.  How does low birth so humble finds in it so noble an intelligence.  Well, it is true that with just cause they can understand more to overcome the banner before us.  With us, you have experimented for a long time in these things.  For this reason, I believe [23] that you know it better than another because you know particularly the corners and the hidden things that the skill has.  In this way, a man with so many years on his job then is a good judge in the face of what he knows.  He speaks with liberty about what he knows.  If it is so that you have the true likeness of the things that you address, you are affirming it through no fault of ours.  I return to our understanding the honor that you omit.  I put it in the place that it deserves.  My wish pretends to have what is between the men.  I judge for truth and I say that our confidence is rational.  Taking the truth in the rigor that you say is nothing other than a proper and perfect and equal likeness of the experience we have to understand the Skill and a conformity of the false understanding that deceives when it has in some likeness that does not conform with the truth of things.  I grant that it is preferable to address Charilao.

And how, Eudemio asks, is it marvelous to others?

The Authors had no Master
The best Master is the mind of each one
The office of the sensitive potentials
Only the understanding makes reflection in their acts
Charilao, almost offended by the irony and joke passage, responds.  If you want, Meliso, pay compliments to our reason against me.  You have been studying some sciences in schools and know them.  I also recognize them and I have an advantage (a thing rare for the understanding) and it appears to us that I lack the understanding of the cause.  With the diligence of my work, I will give a quick demonstration of what can have an intermediate understanding without learning letters.  Against other clever and overwhelming understanding, you know that the better Master of all is the mind, the judgement, the good diligence, and the ability of each one.  Although you offend me, all this accompanies what I wish to know.  Arriving to this season, I object a little so that he wished to prevent the reasons to satisfy the doubts that they had been able to have.  Later following it from the beginning this has continued.  Know things that the apprehensive and sensitive potentials  do not receive only the likeness of the chances.  None of all these makes reflection in the things of the trick, but only the understanding of it makes their actions and receives the likeness of the quantity and of the essence and substance of the things.  I will give you to understand that this has reason in the skill with much more than words because of how the natural things do not offend.  They have reason and compete according to the essence of its nature.  They are able to offend in some instances and for this reason the potential of the knowledge does not offend in knowing the essence of similar things.  As we said before, the view does not deceive near what is commonly by chance.  So it has deceived Meliso to appear that I am discussing against the skill, knowing that the understanding does not deceive so close to his object in perpetual contemplation of the truth.  You are disillusioned because of what you lack in the arms.

The object of the understanding
How it can deceive the understanding
In the things of reason do not admit the authority of the ignorant
How it can deceive the understanding
Other manners to deceive the understanding
You speak truly, replies Meliso, that where it directs the understanding is the proper nature of things.  Because of this, it does not deceive nearly as much as you say.  It is not so little in the first work (which they call simple apprehension) that deceives him.  It is not good that you have to appear for certain that you think I want to give us to newly understand.  If you will want to understand, [24] the understanding endures deceit.  It will respond from the road to the little doubt that Eudemio has.  It deceives both composing and dividing.  When this act attributes some later thing to have understanding of its essence and form, either some other thing does not compete or it denies that it agrees.  He is able to be deceiving because you understand the Skill, although you understand its definition.  It is not because he may know that thing is a point, line, surface, body, angle, triangle, square, circle, center, and proportion.  No, because this is already involved in Mathematics.  Nor can he know that a cut is different from the thrust and the thrust is different from the reverse and he understands some particularities of it to tell bad from good.  He raises testimonies to them that they well understand because he may have a competitor without agreeing with anyone.  This will not be a skilled man.  Nor do we have dispassionate reason to say that a thing has the air of true knowledge of the skill.  The other ignorant man comes availing himself of two other vulgar (infamous people) and raising a banner to sustain his false opinion against the truth.  He is guided by all his pretensions with envy and bad will.  He brings us to disillusions.  The rest deceives all points of this.  We do not have to be a believer of what they have given no reason to.  For his part, nothing satisfies and returns to pick up where he left off.  I say that he has the understanding which doesn't agree with the essence of the things that he has the feeling (as the saying is) to judge the common objects.  From this, he is strongly able to deceive true understanding principally when the definition of the essence of a things is attributed to another.  So, a cut may be given the definition of the straight line, and to the circle the definition of the square, or the beast the definition of the man.  Also, if he deceives in another manner, he composes the parts of the definition that he is not able to apply.  So if one forms this definition, the man is a rational animal with 4 hands and 6 feet.

The understanding is not deceived in knowledge of simple forms
The truth cannot be denied
It is enough, says Charilao, what you have given us about the vulgar whose office is to contradict the truth.  I respond with elegant wit.  Bear with me, I am not very far from disillusionment.  He says that in knowledge of the simple forms understanding cannot be deceived.  There is confirmation in what the Philosopher says that the abstractions will not deceive.  I see such speculative maliciousness in our talk that it is not right to Arm the man of patience.  It should prevent phlegm and reasons that satisfy us.  In conclusion, we discuss with truth and resolution as required by business of such importance.  Certainly only you are of singular opinion against it.  The skill may be true or may have some truth in it that all may have known.  Arriving at this truth will venerate and esteem what it merits.

The cause of such various opinions between skilled men
Before I overcome it, responds Charilao, the same thing may be true.  Later the one who denies or obscures will deceive.  Ignoring the skill is the most principle cause I can find of giving rise to so much variety of opinion and such ridiculous Sects before the skilled men.  One says you should parry.  Others say that he has to feel the contrary sword with the weakness of his sword.  Others say that in no manner he may do it.  One says to put the left foot toward the injury.  Others publish it false by affirming that it is better to injure with the right.  In some things they agree that all has to be false.  In this way opinion is divided [25] into true and false.

The parts that divide the opinion
The office of the reason
Against the skill
In that he knows the nature of the skill
The experience cleanly removes the truth and undoes the opinion
The understanding, says Charilao has, as its object, the truth as we have said.  All reason works to find it.  In finding the truth, you cannot have some opinion.  The Skill is all divided by opinions that follow and are later found to have no truth.  In those opinions they cannot have knowledge of Arms.  Because if it is true that a part of the sword remote from the center has little strength and is weak in the beginning of the movement, unavoidably it will always be that he will know it.  He knows the nature of the Skill by the qualities of the Elements.  Since it is so, there is no one so rustic in the World that he cannot be persuaded because if he denies it, it is not the quality of the light that we all understand.  Having the experience cleanly extracts the truth or undoes all points of opinion.  It is certainly obvious that the rest of the things are the Skill.

It is very good, says Meliso, such I infer that where there are more opinions between the skilled men, major difficulty in the knowledge of the true Skill is implied.  You have demonstrated a level road for all.  Speak more to me about these vulgar ones who always discuss the skill and the brave ones who have so little of it.

For this reason the cowards want to appear as Skilled Men
This, responds Charilao, is why the Anchor that doesn't know how to swim never leaves the water, or consider the loves of Penelope who, unable to possess her, strive for their servants.  Likewise these skilled men, being unable to follow the true name of valor, strive for always discussing the skill that is his Minister with so little effect.  There are men, and more of them, of low fortune and given customs and that they greatly fear the insults.  All they can do is feign this vanity of valor.  They cover the name of the skilled man with dissimilar cowardice.  This is the way of ugly women.  Do they not supply nature with the artificial?  This gives rise to brave, ferocious postures with plagues and curses of the immoderate boasting.  the expressions, grimaces, and movements frighten the ignorants and do not attract them.  The discrete are always considered before them.

The material that composes the trick
The reasons of Charilao all appear to be satisfying to the reasons of Charilao.  They are so prompt that they are convinced of the falsity of the skill.  In any case, they condemn the opinion through Eudemio with a doubting spirit.  It appears that he is not content with these reasons.  Then he will want to return to defend his opinion with new arguments.  Charilao is confused and supposes that they return later to the material of the skill in question.  I will want to know about the things partial to the skilled men.  These are cut and reverse, thrust and 2-handed blow, parry and deflection.  These are common to Skilled Men.  He is not able to give injury with a sword nor with other arms except through these fundamentals.  Are these not the same that go with the Skill or what they call skill?  He does all these things without changing them.

The knowledge is acquired with use
I don't know how to speak with certainty, responds Eudemio.  It appears to me to be due to the pretence that they have to go further than others to apply and defend the movements that constitute the wounds.  So it goes , being that all the learned ones do the same well and others poorly or become better than the others.

The importance of true application
No, I say thus, says Charilao.  It is not whether to do them well or poorly but in [26] the application of them.  Although the Skilled Man has applied it poorly still it gives a good injury, so another applies the letters to the syllables and the syllables to the words.  They constitute bad or good oration being the one structure, but you know that in Arms it is quickness.

Definition of false quickness
Quickness, says Eudemio, conforms to what I understand and knows to apply.  It makes one injury greater than another.  Clarify that part that in the adversary has major effect.

True definition of quickness
Agreement that the skilled man has knowledge of the ends
To this, Charilao responds.  If you do not know the time nor the place that each trick has to have, then this promptness you speak of is of little good use.  It is not this quickness we use in running, in jumping, and in speaking. He learns to do things respecting that they are late and so in great things which are possessed in the movements of the Body, of the hands, and of the sword or feet, of the face or intelligence.  Quickness is a strength that passes and ends many things in brief time.  So he approaches the Body, the sword and its movements, and the steps.  All the more quickness it has because it makes good use of the part that gives it the beginning of each Kind of wound.  The skilled man does well to leave his pretension.  To ignore it says many times that a skilled man doing the certain tricks sometimes and other times the contrary changes where he is and the skilled man changes his tricks first.

Knowledge begins with use
You speak well, replies Eudemio.  I believe you should proceed with the knowledge of the injuries and the understanding of where they offend in the end.  Through this he gets knowledge of experience.

Here he says the tricks of first invention
Here he treats the tricks of second invention
The learned greatly Deceived it
The fortune of the doctrine
That is a good and true skill, responds Charilao.  It cannot know the contrary because he does not give his place by being weak in movements.  These he easily knows is the will of the contrary to follow the Skilled Man to the end of his movements.  We have proved that it cannot be science without some certainty.  For this reason, the adversary is sometimes assisted by asking for the skilled man and giving it.  Other times he does not assist and does not injure.  He is not certain to do an arranged thing being all that he does, and who he does, and in whom he does.  He stops it beyond what a man does in his tricks that is always against a posture without differentiating his trick for the adversary.  Because of his trick this is sometimes certain and other times, without changing them, makes them false although he has the quickness you speak of.  That is what you wanted to give us without understanding.  He has more who can work and apply the tricks of men with great strength.  Those who are certainly great are always discussing Arms.  Principally, it is deceiving when he learns more (according to Quintiliano) and makes good use of the augmentation of his strength, and the quiet of the Spirit and the lost fear.  I will give this more breath when I discuss it more slowly in the Third Dialogue.

What you say is true, responds Eudemio.  They contend more with it than they know.  His intelligence is good.  He honors it by pretending foreign things for his great disguise.

Customs of the ignorant vulgar
The antiquity of ignorance
The vulgar judge knows and understands less
Customs that bring deceit with much apparent valor
The vulgar have more imagination than reason
The reason you have, says Charilao, disguises that the man uses what he doesn't know and boasts of what he doesn't have in the way he has the Skill and valor.  The time they have to spend learning they lose in reproving others.  It is worse that they discuss what they have no understanding of.  The greatness [27] of the Skill is not humbled so much that it because equal to the lowness of their understanding.  I do not take more of our time with the strength of presuming to know.  With ignorance we will be able to say with reason that Aristarchus saw in another time 7 Wise and in our time we cannot find 7 idiots.  They all presume to know more than scholars but are ignorant.  So those whom we discuss all want to appear to be skilled and valiant men (that Anacharis will say) so they marvel at what was said in Greece regarding the Craftsmen.  They have judged this major era appearing to give honor to those who know nothing; and, on all points, they ignore his art.  We have now seen the shamelessness of those who profess the military discipline without knowing it.  They murmur that they know it greatly.  If he does not know some of that knowledge, there is no more error in the arms.  He admires those who do not kill.  Moreover they are so cunning that they do with strength what they do not put in danger or leave with the opportunity and leave the honor with it.  They are of such low spirit that they have to flee when they find great danger.  There are men in the world that hate life by putting themselves in danger fearfully.  These men they love and they separate from them fearfully.  He confers this that they want what we have and we value valiants only because they want to appear valiant.  Through our weight, they procure that they believe it without having to work at it.  They deserve it in their imagination and with deceit, lies, and abominations.

The solution of the doubt is the invention of the truth
For certain, says Eudemio, you have reason to be offended by the customs damaging the skilled men.  Let us leave this now for a time.  Speak to me something (because it doesn't offend us) of the true Theory, how they have to apply the movements of the sword to succeed with them, and of similar things that you will consider in the true Skill.  It rejects my spirit and puts fear to true reason.  The demonstrations that it may give will be more perfect (it seems to me) to induce later such things of doubt.  Principally, the solution of doubt is the invention of the truth.

The basics about the Fabric of the Skill
I will be unable, says Charilao, to declare this well because the place is inconvenient for it.  With no small and brief care, I have been able to demonstrate clearly what you ask.  Nor can I purify each point that I will consider.  More because you remain disillusioned with true proof, I will say that it all occurs basically as we have said in the principles of Philosophy and Geometry.  Without them, it cannot have true knowledge of arms.  Considering the skill in the next things, and verifying for a consideration of them many things that they can't verify or prove for no more of them, agree to know these: the Body, the Spirit, the Act, the color, the view, the Touch, the posture, the distance, the strength, the figure, the time, the movement, the quality, the size, the end, the condition, the order, the mode, the Kind, the difference, the knowledge, the weight, the proportion, the measure, the disposition, the cause, the effect, the material, the form, the essence, the intention, and the attention, and the subject.